The genealogists all of the consider this significant that Nicholas’ spouse Clementia is actually included right here as, less than typical situations, she would not be mentioned. Whenever Susanna on specific afterwards date got over to an alternative guardian, the fresh spouse of the protector was not said.
This would signify King John invested a while there and you will the possibility of an amorous liaison having Clementia is present
Below the following is a theory state-of-the-art from the certain eminent genealogists, but it is fair to declare that the new conclusions is actually hotly contested!
It idea results in a wonderful and you may curious ‘twist’ throughout the story from Joanna, that could attention admirers regarding HBD!
On top, there would be absolutely nothing to recommend people commitment amongst the hostage, Susanna out of Wales and you can Clementia, wife out of Nicholas de- Verdun. not, sensation of particular genealogists with overseas hostages, such youths, might have been that they have been tend to place which have friends, or no were readily available.
Bouncing toward 1236, there is an entry on Tewkesbury annals hence applies to Joanna’s mother since “Queen Clemencie!” They checks out in part:
Now, it is known that mom regarding Joanna was called Clementia (Clemence?
In cases like this the latest monk is actually plainly indulging when you look at the gothic legalism. In advance of their unique death, Joanna was legitimised because of the Pope. On the basis of one to legitimisation, the fresh Tewksbury monk evidently grabbed they up on himself to elevate Joanna’s mom for the position out-of Queen, since if their own mother was Queen John’s spouse! It is a fact however, one Queen John and you may Clementia was in fact never married. By speaing frankly about Joanna’s mom since the “Queen” Clementia, the fresh new monk exactly who registered Joanna’s death was proving his tall respect to own Joanna, however trying to change the real points.
When it comes to name of Clementia de- Verdun, Paget suggests that she is the child away from Roger de Dauntsey, out of Wiltshire. One to genealogist takes into account they high one to Clementia hailed out of Wiltshire given that he has got pointed out that King John got a robust connection so you’re able to one to state, it as being the home out-of his best partners, the Longespee, ilies and you can Geoffrey Fitz Peter.
Genealogists are finding that the term ‘Clementia’ try really uncommon certainly one of English noblewomen on the several months. In one single dining table out-of ladies’ brands which was obtained, there are merely several occurrences of your own name “Clementia” out-of all in all, 1407 ladies in the fresh attempt! The truth that someone titled Clementia could well be associated with the Susanna is considered significant.
Thus! The data are suggestive, yet not definitive, one to when you look at the 1228, Susanna, given that a good hostage, obtained out to the newest proper care of their own maternal grandmother, today spouse off Nicholas de Verdun!!
The fresh new Scottish genealogists of the MacDuffs’ keep one to Susanna ferch Llywelyn came into this world 1214 in the Gwynnedd, Wales and you can passed away c. 1259 into the Dunfermline, Fife, Scotland. She hitched Malcolm MacDuff, Earl from Fife inside 1230 along with a couple of people: Sir Colbran MacDuff, Earl from Fife, produced 1245, died 1270 and MacDuff MacDuff created 1247.
Definitely, you’ll find avoid arguments to all the so it conjecture! King John got of a lot mistresses and perhaps up to eight illegitimate people. The caretaker away from Joanna might have been born circa 1172 and you will marriageable circa 1184. Joanna herself was created circa 1191 (fourteen years of age during the time of their unique matrimony to Llywelyn). Rohese, new understood legitimate child of Nicholas de- Verdun and his wife https://brightwomen.net/fi/serbialaiset-naiset/ Clementia was given birth to circa 1210-1213. In the event the Clementia try mom of Joanna, she’d come in their late 30’s, early 40’s whenever pregnancy to Rohese! Perhaps not hopeless, specific state, however, unlikely.